$150M Revenue & $500M Capital: Transforming Mobility Markets with Financial Inclusion w/ Tingting Peng, Moove

SCS: 

Moove on Bilion Dollar Moves. This makes me super happy. Tingting, so excited to be with you here in SpeedInvestor's office in London. How are you feeling today? 

Tingting Peng: 

Feeling good. 

SCS: 

Before we get started here, I'd like to start with a little bit of rapid fire. So billion dollar questions just to get us warmed up. All right. 

Tingting Peng: 

I'm ready. 

SCS: 

Money or power? 

Tingting Peng: 

Power. 

SCS: 

Fame or fortune?

Tingting Peng: 

Fortune. 

SCS: 

What's a book you still hold on to and read again and again? 

Tingting Peng: 

Think Again by Adam Grant. 

SCS: 

Favorite, I guess mantra from Think Again? 

Tingting Peng: 

Favorite mantra, be willing to rethink and challenge your assumptions. Question everything. 

SCS: 

Fill in the blanks, success is?

Tingting Peng: 

Success is being happy and aligned in who you are, what you do, and your values. 

SCS: 

Failure is? 

Tingting Peng: 

The privilege to learn from lots of trials and errors. 

SCS: 

First job you got paid for. So not out of university, but the first job ever you got paid for.

Tingting Peng: 

I tell my kids this a lot. I was 13 and I was a cashier at Wilson's Farms in Lexington, Massachusetts.

SCS: 

What did that job teach you? 

Tingting Peng: 

I loved numbers as a kid, so I got to play with a very old school cash register, which was very exciting as a 13 year old. But, how to deal with people, customer service, dealing with difficult, challenging situations, and being very detailed in counting your pennies at the end of the day.

We had to reconcile our register with the amount that showed up at the end of the day. And if any, any money was missing, you know, there'd be a problem. 

SCS: 

What's the most used app on your phone right now? 

Tingting Peng: 

It is… Spotify. 

SCS: 

What keeps you up at night still? 

Tingting Peng: 

I want to be a good parent. I want to be able to provide the opportunities for my kids, beyond what I had, so I want them to be happy.

SCS: 

What worries you most about your children's generation?

Tingting Peng: 

The lack of exposure to challenges, that can build resilience. 

SCS: 

What is your crucible moment?

Tingting Peng: 

I've had many, I think, throughout my career. The first one was probably 2009 during the height of the global financial crisis when I got laid off from my high flying hedge fund job, and I was forced to find myself and kind of figure out who I was and what I stand for. 

And then again during, during the COVID pandemic, kind of rethinking what it is that I want to do, what's my purpose in life, and how do I find fulfillment. In that transition, which ultimately led me to Moove.

SCS:

Well, that's a perfect segue into what led you here today. So you, as we were chatting earlier, you've definitely had ticked the boxes for, you know, that finance career, spend your time in the hedge fund, that you're mandatory two years with Morgan Stanley.

So very much in banking, asset management, finance, but then you find yourself today, a lot more hands on with Moove. Tell us a little bit about, I guess, that pivot in career, at this stage and what brought you to this important work that you're doing. 

Tingting Peng: 

Yeah. Thank you for the question, Sarah. I have been thinking, reflecting back on my two decades of work, what is the thread that connects all the dots looking backwards, right?

Because at the time, and I've done lots of different things. So, as you said. I went from banking to the hedge fund world. Then I did a bit of a detour, as I mentioned, when I got laid off from a hedge fund, I became a yoga teacher accidentally. I signed up for a course because I wanted to learn more about yoga philosophy.

It helped to keep me sane during my days in finance and then becoming a full time teacher. I ran retreats and then I went back into the corporate world, but with an asset management and real assets and real estate. And then I went and did executive education because I was passionate about exploring the intersection of social enterprise, government and corporate.

That was my ten years in Hong Kong. Then the past ten years here in London has been working for the UK government, bringing Chinese capital to region projects here in the UK. Then it was raising money for real estate managers. Then it was private credit. And then ultimately Moove.

And I was like, what is that thread that connects? All of these experiences and ultimately I have to sum it up in my twenties, I was driven by my heart. You know, I wanted to have lots of experiences and go on these adventures. And so I kind of, I didn't prioritize status, or money or titles. I wanted to prioritize experiences.

And looking backwards now, actually, I think that was probably the right thing to do. I have lots of stories. and then in my thirties. I've learned this word recently, it's what's called skill stacking. So I did start to think about how I can improve or accumulate or gain new skills and experiences that would make my previous or existing set of skills and experiences even more valuable, right?

So building on the foundations of a financial skill set, an investment skill set, what other quantitative, qualitative, soft skills can make that more valuable. It's stakeholder management, communication, a lot of the soft skills. It is sales without being, you know, salesy. It is being able to evolve and adapt to be resilient in different types of situations.

It's having that ownership mentality. So, I think that's been the thread, I guess, through the decades. And then to talk specifically about how I ended up at Moove, it's actually very serendipitous, and I do believe in the power of, you know, intentions and setting out intentions in the universe.

And it was ultimately during COVID, I still remember at the end of 20, towards the end of 2020, I thought to myself, I really want to do something meaningful in my next role. I want to leave the planet a better place for my children than when I found it. And what are some of the things that I care deeply about?

So one was having a role that would enable me to have significant impact directly. And I felt being an investment management, you're still quite far removed from being able to do that. Second was I wanted to pivot into tech. I've always, you know, enjoyed being on the periphery and kind of looking in, outside looking in, but I've never been in tech.

And so I thought it was now or never. And then finally having spent a decade in Asia working across emerging markets, every day wanted to go back into emerging markets. And Africa at the time being based in London felt like the most sensible next. So it was those three things that I kind of set out as an intention into the universe, started having conversations and you know, as luck would have it, a friend introduced me to my now co-founders at Moove. And we've been working together ever since. 

SCS: 

You were essentially the first executive hire of an African born fintech startup that is now what we were counting as sort of the accolades from, of course, capital raises is a measure of success, not the only one, but $250 million in equity, $250 million in debt, what impacting, what was it, like 30,000 at least customers and growing globally. 

Tell us a little bit about your decision. I mean, you could have chosen for tech and yes, you had your criteria, but there were many other tech emerging market players for you to work with. There must have been something in the conversation with Ladi or Jide that made you feel like this is the one I'm going to spend my time in.

Tingting Peng: 

It wasn't obvious, at the beginning. Obviously we had lots of WhatsApp conversations back then. Nothing in person because, you know, we were locked down. I was locked down here in London. They were locked down in Lagos. And so our initial conversations were all via either WhatsApp or Teams.

And they'll know that it's that when I’m going to tell the story and everyone laughs about it. But essentially the very first conversations we had on Teams, they would never turn on their video. And so I have this big question mark. I'm like, are these guys real? Because I don't even know what they look like.

And ultimately when I agreed to join them, to work on our first major project together, which was our Series A fundraise, The biggest question that I had was around who they are as people. Can I work with them? So closely with them. And I did work really closely with them, attending all the investor meetings, doing all the DD.

I really enjoyed it, really enjoyed working with them. Ultimately, I ended up meeting them in person, which kind of helped me to come to terms with the fact that they are real people and they're good people. 

But then the second area of diligence was around, is this a big enough business opportunity? Is there a market? And having not spent any time in Africa, I couldn't really validate that, not being on the ground. 

So I put a few calls into a few of my friends who are in the VC ecosystem, who had either done deals in Africa or, which is a lot more well versed in terms of that diligence process. And both of them came back, you know, saying, Tingting, this is a rocket ship. If you have the opportunity, you should join. And ultimately they both came in as VC investors and that was our series A, this is DCM Ventures and also Palm Drive. And that also validated for me, you know, speaking as friends that they saw the same potential that I did.

So I definitely kicked the tires. I definitely did my diligence. But ultimately, it was the right time, the right opportunity and also the right people.

SCS: 

So when you say the right people, I think because this is important, especially as you, I mean, it was what 2020 when they were actually getting started.

I guess if you can speak to the founder archetype that you were looking for, leaders that you would invest your time and what would those three qualities be? 

Tingting Peng: 

So it's interesting because it's two of them, right? So it's Ladi and Jide. They're very different. Although, I'll caveat that by saying I made them take a personality and Myers-Brigg test recently.

SCS: 

You're my kind of girl.

Tingting Peng: 

Actually, we're all the same. More or less. Like, we're pretty much all, we all came out the same. Maybe the only variation. 

SCS: 

Wait, all three of you are the same personality types? 

Tingting Peng: 

The only difference is two of us are extroverted, more extroverted-leaning, and one is more introverted.

SCS: 

So ENTJ, INTJ? ENTJ. 

Tingting Peng: 

Yes. 

SCS: 

I see you girl. 

Tingting Peng: 

Wow. Very good. Yeah. It's amazing, right? But I think they come with very different skill sets.

SCS: 

What were their backgrounds? 

Tingting Peng: 

So they're both British born Nigerians and they had known each other for many, many years, before founding Moove.

But they met as undergrads, when Jide was at LSE and Ladi was at SOAS. Ladi actually ended up dropping out, became an entrepreneur, he moved to China. So, we connected the dots and we found out that we were both in Beijing. I was studying and he was running his alcohol distribution business at around the same time.

So he's been a serial entrepreneur his whole life. He's worked across multiple continents, across multiple industries. Ultimately, ended in Nigeria because that is kind of where his roots are from. And he wanted to go and build businesses, build businesses there. 

Jide on the other hand, you know, post LSE, went to join Goldman Sachs, and joined the prop desk. and so he spent about eight years there, then went to business school at MIT Sloan, then joined McKinsey and I think it was through McKinsey, their healthcare practice, that he ended up, in Lagos and the two of them reconnected and Ladi being the CEO of Entrepreneur was like planting seeds in Jide’s head and convinced him to partner together to start building businesses, in Lagos.

And ultimately I think, they share a, despite being very different paths and also quite different personalities, I think they share a passion for creating shared values. So, I think some people know this, many people may not, but Moove isn't the first business they built, so they built three other businesses in Lagos before that, two are in the healthcare space, a chain of walk in clinics, a chain of pharmacies to serve the base of the pyramid, and they also founded an outdoor advertising business in Lagos.

I think it was the combination of having done that a couple of times and as challenging a market as Lagos and Nigeria. And then also recognizing that technology would enable the creation of the next kind of generational leader. And so they started thinking about what is the next big problem to solve.

SCS: 

I guess what I'm getting to is, there are a lot of founder driven businesses where at a certain point in time, you know, they have to find an executive like you.

But typically in your profile, you would have the opportunity to work for more established businesses, right? Many other opportunities. So what should you be looking for in a founder dynamic, especially with co-founders, which is very difficult. 

Tingting Peng: 

Yeah. And I have worked with both of them very closely, much more so in the early days with Ladi. primarily from the fundraising side and now more closely with Jide on the organizational side of things. If I were to sum it up, it's understanding the language that the co-founders speak in, right?

So, I spend a lot of time kind of observing, where are they at their best? How do they like to consume information? And then being able to meet them, kind of at that level in terms of how he prefers to speak whereas J. D. prefers to read and kind of write down his thoughts. 

And so, it may not be for everyone, right? That kind of ambidextrous, flexibility to adapt to different styles. But, you know, honestly, I think for most leaders in complex and multicultural organizations, that is a skill whether it's managing up or managing sideways, your relationship with your peers or your direct reports, it is a skill, you know, how do people best respond to the information?

How can I most effectively get this message to land? Is it the type of form? Is the channel, you know, is it, is it written? Is it spoken? And then it's having the best interest of the business at heart. No matter what we disagree on or, you know, having different opinions or different perspectives, it is always coming back to what is in the best interest of the company, what are we trying to achieve, let's realign on our overall objectives or overall vision and mission.

I think having that strong ownership mentality is also really important. Like being willing to challenge in a very nurturing and respectful environment, I think, is also important. I think it's having that right level of EQ and communication and managing that is very, very important. 

SCS: 

So between 2020 to today, 2024, a lot has changed at Moove. For the benefit of those who don't know the full story of Moove, African born startup, addressing financial inclusion in a very different way through vehicle ownership, and becoming sort of the provider for the big names like Uber. Tell us a little bit about where the idea started and how it has developed into this $150 million business on a recurring basis.

Tingting Peng: 

If I were to kind of summarize all the different elements of how this came about. So actually, the Uber relationship came through Ladi and Jide’s previous business in outdoor advertising. So I think they were a customer on the outdoor advertising platform. So they had contacts within the organization.

And then there were some conversations about, Uber is a marketplace, right? So it's two-sided. You've got demand on one side, which is those of us ordering trips, and then the other side is, most people think that it is, drivers sitting in cars waiting to accept trips. But actually, in Nigeria, as we've now come to find, in a lot of markets, that supply side is actually broken, because you have, you may have lots of willing and able drivers.

But if they don't have access to credit, or because of a lack of access to credit, they don't have a way to get into a car, they can't actually work. And so, I think identifying that problem, or that broken link, in the flywheel was really important in terms of developing the business model.

That, where we are today, where we call ourselves a third side of mobility marketplaces. So we enable through a ride revenue based financing for cars. We enable drivers who are qualified, who are willing to work, to then have access to a car to then, you know, be able to provide the supply on these marketplaces.

And we've done this and adapted it to different market requirements. You probably are aware in more developed markets like the UK where we also have operations and also in the UAE, heavily regulated, whether it's from a taxi ride hailing perspective or whether it's from a financial services perspective.

So we've had to kind of adapt our product offering in different ways. But ultimately it was realizing that in order for these ride hailing marketplaces to perform well for their flywheel effect to take place. That supply piece is critical And whilst they, you know, the Ubers and the Grabs and the Bolts of the world are very good at building the marketplace infrastructure, the technology behind it that drives demand, that, you know, matches demand and supply. The supply side is heavily operational.

So it's, how do we get the cars in the right markets at the right time? How do we fund the cars, to buy the cars at scale to then put into the hands of drivers? It's highly operational, very complex, managing supply chains and, and those types of considerations. So for a player like Moove to take on that role in a way that ensures that that supply is then met, is, I think, one of the reasons why we've carved out a very unique niche for ourselves.

And it solves a problem not only for the drivers, gives them an access to vehicle ownership, it also provides them with a sustainable job opportunity.

SCS: 

So I guess take Nigeria as an example where vehicle ownership was the problem that Moove was seeking to solve, right? And in the essence that yes, you want to provide all these rides, but we don't even have enough drivers that own vehicles because they don't have credit to be able to buy those vehicles. 

What then was your solution? Was it first was Moove, I guess, buying out fleets and then training drivers? Like, walk us through this because I've seen different models actually, being born in Malaysia, of course, seeing things in, in Southeast Asia as well where things are slightly different compared to, as you said, developed markets. 

Tingting Peng: 

The way we started, we wanted to get proof of concept or product market fit. Trying to test it out as quickly, as quickly as possible. So we actually started with used cars, and that was kind of bootstrapped. So we started with used cars. We got 'em on the road very quickly and as soon as the cars are on the road and as soon as we put drivers in the cars, then you know, we start generating revenue to be able to then see what else we need to adjust and adapt.

One of the things we quickly found out was used cars, and the road infrastructure in Lagos, when you combine the two, meant that we were actually incurring much greater costs in terms of maintenance and repairs than it would be to generate sufficient revenues to then kind of make the unique economics work.

So one of the earliest learnings was we needed to use new cars and we needed to be able to buy them at scale. So that we can command the type of discounts to ensure that the cars are actually ultimately affordable. So one of the most important things we focus on is affordability when it comes to product design, both in terms of the vehicle cost but also the peripheral, right, so the service maintenance, repair costs, the insurance costs. When we combine all of that together, plus the cost of financing because we raise debt ourselves now to buy the cars, how can we make sure that this is as affordable as possible?

Then on the driver's side, we work with our ride hailing partners, in this case, Uber. We have API access to the driver data database. We're able to push out communications. So it's both proactive comms to drivers that may be looking to get into a new vehicle, or get into a car for the first time.

And then we run analytics on their performance history. So productivity data, like how many trips they've completed, you know, lifetime earnings, cancellation rates, acceptance rates. And we combine that into understanding how likely it is that this driver will continue to perform at a level that is required to pay down the cost of the vehicle over time, right?

So, in most of our markets, our product is designed such that it's a fixed weekly fee. And so as the driver starts to complete trips, you know, say they do a trip a day. They work five or six days a week. The total earnings, a portion of that will then go towards paying down the fixed cost of the vehicle.

Everything else will be additional expenses, whether it's charging in the case of EVs or whether it's fuel. And then at the end of the day, we also benchmark to make sure that our drivers take home, you know, sufficient income relative to the national minimum or living wage, typically significantly above that.

SCS: 

And what surprised you from the data? I talked to some of my friends in credit scoring, talking about even just getting women, for example, the underbanked banks, often the women surprises, right? Like, they're the ones often paying down very quickly, they're very efficient with their money once they actually have the opportunity. What surprised you, I guess, in this field? 

Tingting Peng: 

The data on women is definitely, it didn't surprise us, but it was, it came through very clearly in terms of driving behavior, right? Women tended to take care of their cars better, and they were much more vigilant about ensuring that, you know, they went to their maintenance and service events on a regular schedule.

Unfortunately though, we still due to cultural barriers, we still don't have as many female drivers as we would like. 

SCS: 

So, what's the percentage out of interest? 

Tingting Peng: 

It's about two and a half percent, if my memory serves me correctly. I mean, we have a pretty ambitious target of 50%. South Africa is our highest percentage we have, I think, about 150 female drivers, in total across Joburg and Cape Town. But yeah, it's, it's been challenging in markets like Nigeria, Ghana, even the UK and India to recruit female drivers. 

They they actually require a lot more flexibility. Typically, because of the flexibility they require, they, you know, need more time to pay off the cost of their car. So, we're trying to explore in partnership with some of our lenders and also in partnership with our ride hailing marketplace partners. 

Maybe because we operate in so many different markets now. What's surprising is that there is no one size fits all. Maybe that shouldn't be surprising, but there's really no one size fits all. We've tried to classify our emerging markets into one bucket, but even then we put, I think, Nigeria into the frontier side of emerging markets, right?

Because there's a lot more volatility, macroeconomic and socio political challenges, and we would put South Africa, India, and even Ghana to a certain extent in more developed emerging markets where things are a little bit more stable, and so therefore driver performance and driver kind of psychology is slightly different.

Every market has its nuances, and even within, when I say markets, it's cities, right, because we operate in four cities in India. 

SCS: 

And they’re all very different. 

Tingting Peng: 

Exactly. So you have Mumbai, which is more migratory. So drivers will come in from the countryside during peak season and they'll sign up for a car.

Whereas Delhi, you know, it's more residential. So people stay and they don't move around. And so there is a higher ownership mentality. So yeah, through our data, I think we've learned that customers and drivers have lots of different preferences based on the city that they operate in. And we have to be able to very quickly adapt.

SCS: 

So on that note, I mean, you know, emerging markets comes with it, a very mixed connotation, right? We've had investors, frankly, who were burned, many times over in different markets because they didn't expect the geopolitical risk, the currency devaluation, all the volatility. As the chief transformation officer in all these different markets where it is volatile.

How do you plan for these instabilities? Can you even do that? 

Tingting Peng: 

We try. Yeah, we definitely try. So I think it helps that, you know, between myself, Ladi and Jide, we've all had a lot of experience operating in emerging markets. Obviously they've been operating on the African continent for some time, and it also helps that you know, Jide used to trade derivatives and currency. So he was very well set up to think about how are we gonna hedge all of our currency exposures from the beginning. So I can't take any credit for that. 

But I think it is coming to your earlier question. Like, what are the characteristics and traits of like co-founding teams, you know, as executives, you should look for complementary skills, right? I think we bring different and highly complementary skills in terms of looking at these problems. How do we think about identifying potential risks? And then how do we think about mitigating and managing it? 

One of the reasons why people have asked this, investors have asked this so many times, like, why? Why are you in the UK? We consciously and intentionally diversified as quickly as we did because we knew that diversification across the African continent is good, right? Your risk mitigating by spreading your risk, essentially, across many countries' markets with different profiles.

But it's actually even better if you can also add developed markets, which are more resilient. I mean, they take longer to launch, harder to manage, regulatory issues, but actually they're a lot more stable. 

SCS: 

A lot more competition as well. 

Tingting Peng: 

More competition, but they're a bit more stable, to balance out any potential volatility around currency or, you know, when you have election years, etc.

So I think it is proactively thinking about that through diverse, you know, voices in the room. I think it's also, when you think about, working backwards from where we ultimately want to end up, we always knew that Moove was going to be a global business. So, you know, it wasn't pie in the sky thinking, I think recognizing actually the supply problem exists in so many places, it exists globally.

We knew we were going to be a global business, so what do we need to do working backwards to get there? We did have to make some trade offs, right? We opened a number of markets which have since shut. So Kenya, and Egypt are two examples. So it's, being able to quickly pivot.

So we've made the decision, didn't work. What was the reason? How would we learn from it? And then what can we do differently? 

SCS: 

What were some of those reasons if you can share with Kenya and Egypt? I mean. I think the intricacy of diversification is challenging in itself, right? I mean, and again, then the narrative is, are you really building economies of scale because the UK and the needs in Nigeria are vastly different?

Tingting Peng: 

Yeah. In terms of why we closed down some of the markets, we did a lot of introspection, last year, which was our year of transformation. This year was our year of delivery, but last year's year of transformation, we looked in words, we said, we need to focus on past profitability and how are we going to get there?

So what are the things that we know we're fundamentally good at? And what are the things, let's just be honest with ourselves, like we're not really good at this. And, we should probably just focus, right? So one of the things we recognized, through diversification, we not only diversified geographically, but we also diversified in terms of asset class.

So we had four wheel, passenger cars, and we also had trucks, heavy tonnage, low tonnage, and vans for last minute delivery. We also had bikes, ride hailing… and you know what? Our bread and butter, the product that consistently worked was four wheel passenger cars.

Lots of lessons learned in terms of the other asset classes, you know, whether it was because of the low value of the asset in the case of motorbikes, you know, lots of drivers to be able to get their hands on a motorbikes. We had, you know, losses and theft and damage with trucks, much higher asset value.

The existence of a strong marketplace partner was lacking, right? That didn't, that didn't really exist. So we were trying to find, you know, basically being the broker in terms of driving utilization on our trucks. And so a lot of those learnings, ultimately made us decide, like, it's Geos, and so it's actually Geos and the asset type in combination, and also how mature and how strong were the marketplace partners, because ultimately we're relying on them for the accurate data, we're relying on them, in terms of the demand. So if we're providing the supply, the demand has to be there on the other side, otherwise we're not generating revenues.

SCS: 

How long were you in Kenya and Egypt before you decided, okay, it's not working? 

Tingting Peng: 

Kenya was a little bit longer. We were very excited about Kenya. It's not to say that we won't go back. We're trying to look at it again. We were very excited about Kenya because that is an area in Africa where there is a lot of electrification happening, right? 

So there is electrification of buses, electrification of motorbikes So we are kind of observing and watching and then again seeing like is there demand for potentially passenger ride hailing or you know never say never. But we were in Kenya for I want to say maybe about a year and a half of a year in Egypt. Egypt, I think about a year, there were also macro, and political issues at the time in terms of currency and capital controls.

SCS: 

Yeah. I guess what I'm getting to is, you know, sometimes with global expansions. It's kind of hard to sort of decide whether you're not in there long enough to power through, or it just isn't going to work.

So how did you decide that with the team, what was the telling factor, the trigger that said enough is enough at this point in time before we revisit? 

Tingting Peng: 

Yeah. Multiple factors, is the demand there? What's the strength of the partnership that we have? These are actually all the quite similar factors in determining whether or not we go into a market. So demand is really important. We look at vehicle supply. So how easy is it to get cars or whatever asset, whether it's bikes or trucks, how easy is it to procure? What's the supply chain and value chain to service? How developed is that? 

And then last but not least funding. So how easy is it to actually get funding in local currency, preferably, in that market? For us to then procure the vehicles to meet that demand. And so if multiple, two or more of these actors are not preferable or not in the right place, then, it's either not the right time to enter or it's, cut our losses and actually refocus.

And I think the final thing to consider is, you know, at this point we were operating in India, which is one of our top three markets in terms of total number of vehicles. South Africa is also quite significant. We had just launched in the UK and UAE and so we were like, you know, there are lots of other markets where there's vastly greater opportunity.

I think it would be a mistake to kind of try and put too much emphasis on, at the time, smaller markets with a lot more risks than to focus on markets that were working and just continuing to scale up through those. And again, the focus is on profitability. So how can we get to profitability in each of these markets?

If there's no clear path to that because of all these factors I've talked about, then, you know, we would have to cut losses at that point. 

SCS: 

So you talk a lot about dependency on demand, right? And of course, in the early stages, perhaps you might agree even till a certain point in certain markets today, you are dependent on the marketplaces to deliver that revenue, that demand that then drives profitability so that you can focus on the supply side.

How did you convert that early dependency on Uber into a strategic partnership where they're now invested in your success? 

Tingting Peng: 

It takes time. As with all relationships, I think it takes time. It takes consistency. In a partnership, you know, you have to deliver, so, I think we've been able to do that over time.

We demonstrated our ability to do that, in some of the most challenging markets in Africa. It's a bit give and take, right? So, because we've been able to deliver in some of the most challenging markets, we've also been fortunate enough to be given additional opportunities to expand into other markets.

I was talking about being humble enough to recognize what we're good at and what we're not good at. We are very good at the operational side of, you know, supply, fleet management, driver management. Uber is exceptional at creating marketplaces and that experience, that customer experience.

I think it's that perfect pairing of what they're good at and what they need and what we're good at. And actually it's very synergistic in that way. I think our Series B investment was a recognition that this partnership is working really well, and if we're able to continue to focus on what we're good at, then we can do a lot more together and there's a lot more opportunity.

SCS: 

So just to understand, Uber is one of your providers for your demand. You also work, I guess, in different countries or different marketplaces, whether that's Bolt, whether that's, you know, Grab. And, potentially in less developed, I guess they have driver services as well. How'd you think about your spread and about balancing that need for demand and yet the investment through somebody who probably wants exclusivity.

Tingting Peng: 

Exclusivity looks different in different markets. And oftentimes that's actually governed by regulation. So in the UK, for example. We cannot be mutually exclusive, there are other competitors that are also offering higher purchase cars to our driver base that we cannot mandate that of our drivers. So that's in part regulatory driven I think the way we think about it. We haven't operationalized other partnerships.

Although in the past as I mentioned, you know, we have bikes.We had a partnership with Glovo, on the buses side, we had a partnership with Swivel, that was in Egypt, you know, we didn't operationalize. So we do have flexibility there. But ultimately, the bolts and the grabs of the world will have the exact same issues when it comes to supply and, we know that in order to actually fulfill that supply, the capital requirement is significant, right? So it's not gonna only be our opportunity, it's gonna be the opportunity of other similar types of startups that are starting to pop up, right?

That are either offering like rental or subscription offer. That are trying to tackle the same problem in slightly different ways. I think we're going to continue to do what we're doing and innovate. The market is plenty big for…

SCS:

Yeah, I'm just like, you know, my gears are spinning here as I'm thinking about the different permutations in every different industry.

I guess, you know, if I reflect and as someone who's tuning into this conversation who's a founder of building and scaling in global markets. I found it interesting that from day one, you knew you were going to be a global business and sort of built backwards. Whereas for some founders, a lot of them, because it's purpose driven or whatever, they almost, you know, take the next step, the next step. And then lo and behold, it's a global business. 

So this was almost a reverse engineering of this business. What can others learn from Ladi and Jide, how you've transformed the company? In terms of partnership with OEMs, right? With insurers, with the marketplaces and how you strategically grown globally.

Tingting Peng: 

Yeah. So it wasn't all obvious to us at the beginning. I think with the ecosystem partners, our OEM partners are critical to us and we continue to build and develop new relationships every day. And the same for our lenders, right? So it's, how do we add value? Because ultimately, if we can add value to each of these players in our ecosystem, then the more we can do together, right?

And that kind of benefits everyone and ultimately we're able to raise more money, buy more cars, serve more customers to then put more supply on marketplaces. So it's a very powerful flywheel. So we try to think about it from that perspective. So what's in it for them? What's in it for the OEM?

What's in it for them through, you know, many conversations of building relationships over the years, it's, we know that consumer, and again, in emerging markets versus developed markets may be slightly different, but we know that consumer consumption, so purchases of private car ownership is declining in developed markets, right?

So with a new generation, everyone Ubers or takes public transportation and you're so lucky to have that. And so private car ownership is declining, OEMs are looking for new distribution channels, how can they reach new potential customers that are not kind of for retail or private car use.

And so commercial fleets is actually a really interesting proposition. We realized it in hindsight where we're like, oh, actually we could help them. And so what else can we do? What else can we do together? We can partner together to offer after sales, right? Because OEMs. What else do they provide through their dealership network? Not only do they sell new cars, but they also sell old cars and they also provide after sales, right? Service maintenance and repairs, which is another revenue stream for them. 

And what that gets for us, actually, it's always very synergistic. Our drivers then are able to have a very seamless experience, right? So they go to the same showroom to pick up their car and then they go back to the same warehouse or the same chain of repair shops to then get their regular 5k, 10k services. And it's very professionalized and standardized and that customer experience for us, for our drivers also, is a very positive experience.

So talking about financial services institutions and how we partner with them, again, it's distribution channels for a new customer type that they would otherwise not be able to underwrite.

SCS: 

Because they don't have the score. 

Tingting Peng: 

Exactly, they don't have the score, they're thin file customers, we have access to alternative data that can underwrite these types of customers and actually once we build that relationship, we can in the future serve, you know, additional financial services products. So I think there is a win-win in this for everyone. And so although we are very much impact driven, it's nice to be able to not have to make those trade offs.

SCS: 

Yeah. Well, well, working in impact is not a concession, right? A lot of people think that even the work that I do that, you know, we'll see you later tonight, investing in women, we always say it's not charity. Investing in women is the greatest business investment you can make because they pay their debt on time. They're more careful with their vehicles. They're trustworthy. 

So as you think about, I mean, you know, it's interesting, I see the trends that you're picking up, right? So, private vehicle ownership on decline, the need for more inventory essentially in certain markets because there's just no ownership, to even begin with.

One of the trends is Moove betting on, I guess, EV is one of them, right? You've moved into that recently. 

Tingting Peng: 

Yes.We believe in a, you know, lower carbon, lower emissions future. So in markets where there is EV infrastructure, we are rolling out with 100 percent EV fleet. That's here in the UK, UAE. That will be the case in the US when we launch. 

In markets where that doesn't exist, we try and choose lower emission alternatives. So India, we have a fully CNG fleet, which is, I think it's about two thirds lower emissions than traditional internal combustion vehicles, gas engines. We're looking at converting our cars in Nigeria to CNG, for example.

We're trying to do what we can to, depending on the infrastructure and the ecosystem that's available and in markets where there is no kind of, you know, alternative, it is choosing the most fuel efficient new vehicles to put on the road so we can minimize emissions.

SCS: 

And I suppose this is regulatory driven as well, right? Where the incentives and things like that for you…

Tingting Peng: 

Exactly. Well, it's regulatory driven, but I think there's also commitments from our ride healing marketplace partner. So Uber has made a commitment to electrify their fleet. So London, for example, I think is meant to be fully electric by 2025. 

SCS: 

Oh, I did not know that. Like next year?

Tingting Peng: 

Yeah. Yeah. Next year. It's very important to set ambitious targets. So the transport authority has also mandated that all new ride hailing cars and kind of that classification of private hired cars have to be electric. It's both regulatory and then as a result of that, you know, our partners are trying to be at the forefront of their net zero commitments, which means we've got to be part of that. We've got to be part of that transformation. 

SCS: 

Yeah. So as we look ahead here, I mean, we're coming up to time. What were some of the hardest lessons through this journey that you wish I guess, Moove had learned earlier. I mean, hindsight is always 20 20. But for a founder who's building and scaling, what are the most important lessons you think you've learned?

Tingting Peng: 

I think it's really important to have regular, ongoing, honest, open conversations, with the executive team, with the co-founders, in terms of what's working, what's not working, like regularly reassessing. What do we do well, what did we not do well? You know, this is one of the things I've learned reading and then putting into practice, right? So Think Again, Grant's book. 

Reassess everything, right? The pace with which change happens at a startup, especially in the early days. You've got to kind of look at your data. What are your numbers telling you? Is this not, this is not working? You know, peel the bandaid off and move on. And so that you can actually focus on what is working and do more of that. 

And I think part of that is having the right people around the table, because you can also have, you can hire brilliant people who have longstanding track records from much larger institutions, but may not have built and scaled at the very early stages. There are lots of different opinions and perspectives, and you're like, who's right? Who do I listen to? And so, I guess, being selective and careful and considerate about who's in the room when you're having these conversations about making these types of decisions, is also a lesson learned.

I think it's, there's no black or white answer. When it comes to people, it's difficult, but people is also one of the most challenging aspects of scaling, right? The people that launch with you may not be the ones that scale with you, may not be the ones that exit with you, and that's okay. It's sad, but they were part of the journey, and, you know, you thank them and you move on. 

SCS: 

And how about from a fundraising perspective? I mean, you're the chief fundraiser in many different ways. $250 million in debt and $250 million in equity. That's a ton of cash from really big names, right? Uber, MUFG, Speed Invest. Of course, our friends at Palm Drive Capital as well. 

What has been your lesson in, you know, fundraising effectively? I mean, you know, part of what I'm passionate about is, making sure that female founders get their fair share and bias is very real. People say it's, there’s not enough women, but I always push them to question why is there not enough women, right?

Just to your point of like why they're not enough women drivers because they bear the majority load of the household by taking their own children to places, which you did this morning. Actually. 

Tingting Peng: 

Yeah. I'm always in fundraising mode and the way I think about it is it's a relationship. And one of my life's mottos is it's not a no, it's a not now. It's a not yet. And even if an investor doesn't come in, it's not the right time, not the right stage. They could be the ones that open doors or introduce me to my next investor. 

So I spent a lot of time thinking about how I can build and cultivate relationships, keeping investors up to speed, both existing investors and prospective investors, keeping them up to speed in terms of what's happening, Where we might need help, what are the most exciting developments and opportunities so that we can create lots of champions of the business. 

Which means when it then comes time to activate the fundraising engine, there's already an ecosystem of people who are familiar with what you do, who are excited about what's coming and the prospects of your business. And you're not starting from scratch. A lot of times it's, you know, because founders like to build. Founders, you know, want to be in founder mode, not in fundraising mode. And so you're almost on the back foot when you're like, oh shoot, I need to start fundraising. So it's always kind of thinking about what we can do to maintain those conversations, those relationships.

And before you need to fundraise, and then specifically speaking about women, because we were talking about the sales muscle, I think women are great storytellers, but we tend to undersell ourselves when it comes to talking about the things that we're really good at or the things that we believe our company is really good at.

Another area to focus on is actually just thinking about what are the stories that highlight those most important traits or characteristics, the problem that you're trying to solve. So that we can kind of get around our own barriers that we create for ourselves. Whilst ensuring that we're landing with investors and also, you know, generating that excitement and developing those relationships that we need to. 

It's not easy, but we know that there are lots of kindred spirits in the community, so I hope to see more female founders, also female, more female investors.

SCS: 

Yeah, capital allocators, because that's where it matters. 

Well, Tingting Peng, for telling me your story, and rising to the occasion. Thank you so much for spending your time here with us, and it's been such a pleasure to learn about your journey. The pivots, and you know, but still the theme, it's interesting that a lot of, I would say a lot of ENTJs. We kind of force ourselves to find a theme when a lot of others say, well, does there have to be a theme? 

Life is never like one part, right? Yeah, but it's nice to have like a consistent theme that you can answer to but anyway, Tingting Peng thank you so much for your time and for making your version of Billion Dollar Moves.

We usually give a high five for all the great work you've done! 

Tingting Peng: 

Thanks for having me, Sarah. 

SCS: 

And we can't wait to see where our moves ends up.