Faith, Finance, Technology w/ Fara Abdullah, Bitsmedia

Sarah Chen-Spellings (Intro):

It's hard to believe that the worldwide Muslim population to be exceeds 1.9 billion. That makes up almost 25% of the world's population.

So when I came across a not-so-startup startup, Bitsmedia, the creator of the wildly popular Muslim lifestyle app Muslim Pro, I was intent on digging deep into the billion dollar moves its CEO, Fara Abdullah was making.

While Muslim Pro's journey started with its inception as an utility app dedicated to fulfilling the daily spiritual and practical needs of Muslims worldwide. Its aims today are next level, to say the least.

With a new flush of capital $20 million from its recent funding round, with participation by Gobi Partners alongside continued support from existing investors, CMI Capital Partners and Bintang Capital Partners.

These funds will be dedicated to advancing artificial intelligence capabilities and rich content offerings on Bitsmedia streaming platform, Qalbox. And continuously develop educational features while improving the Quran experience with Muslim Pro.

Today's conversation covers everything from the business power and opportunity of faith and the intersection of faith, finance and technology. And I hope you learn as much as I did.

Fara Abdullah:

We saw that there was a big huge underserved market in the Muslim community, right? So what else can we do given that we've actually reached out to almost 160 million Muslims worldwide?

We saw that, okay apart from just providing the Quran, providing the prayer times and also the Qibla, what else can we do? Because you know Sarah, Islam, it's a way of life.

It's not just about reading the Quran or going to the mosque and praying. There's a lot, a lot, a lot more to Islam. It's in the way we dress, it's in the way we invest, it's in the way we educate our kids, right? So it's the whole ecosystem.

So that was when I was brought in actually. I was from the consumer world, right? FMCG. Where I have always been is to be in business development and opening of new markets, identifying of new opportunities for us to expand into.

And I guess that's the reason why, when I was approached for this role, I thought this is the perfect opportunity for me to make a difference in a very underserved community, but also a community that I'm really passionate about.

Because, of course, I'm a Muslim. And I really feel we're just at the surface and there's so much that we can do in the Muslim world, for us to expand into, for us to make a difference to the Muslim community.

Sarah Chen-Spellings:

Yeah, I love that far. And maybe if we can understand a little bit, the amount of time that Bitsmedia has been around is something to talk about, right? To be able to sustain through different cycles and to do what some may think is actually a niche business.

Can you talk to us a little bit about the evolution of the business model? From the beginning and I guess where you as co-CEO now, I know you joined in 2021; where do you see this going?

Fara Abdullah:

I really feel that we've just scratched the surface of the Muslim community and also what we can offer to the Muslim community.

So like I mentioned just now, we really started very strong. We were the first movers, offering digital Quran on the go, making it easy for people to access to Quran, prayer times.

As we move along over the years, what we've done is we've evolved actually from just providing basic tools. We've evolved to become a more Islamic lifestyle app, right?

So what do I mean by that? Just now I mentioned that Islam is a whole lifestyle and ecosystem. We extended our services to include content. So we recently introduced Qalbox.

So Qalbox, many people think that it's actually a streaming platform, someone to compete with Netflix, offering that Islamic perspective. It's a little bit of that, I would say, but having said that, Qalbox is really meant to, how do I say, celebrate Muslim identities, Muslim cultures worldwide.

Because we are in 190 markets right across 160 million Muslims worldwide, so you can imagine that the diversity of Muslims across. Muslim in Singapore is very different from Muslim in the US, very much different from a Muslim in Nigeria, for example, right?

So here we have to balance that a little bit. And that's why we thought that entering into content would be the perfect segue for us to really understand our users even further. Through that we understand, okay, what is it that they're looking for?

Is it bridges to their faith? Is it something to solidify their faith? That means the Quran in multi formats. For example, now we have it in audio. Do they want it in video? Do they want it in interactive learning platforms, right? That's the one.

We also saw that our users really are into kids in education. And this is not surprising at all. Because even for me, I'm a mother to three very young children, I struggle sometimes to really find a safe, moderated platform for my kids to really understand the culture, to really understand the Muslim world.

There is some kind of view, a very templated kind of view about Muslims worldwide. So I think this is why we entered into content. And from content, what we intend to do is then to see, okay, which of the areas, our users really committed to, really wanting to know more.

And that's when we are also partnering with a lot of brands, a lot of organizations locally, globally in markets specifics, to really cater back to what the users want.

An example, we saw that financial literacy is really very, very popular, right? Islamic finance is a whole new world. It's a whole different world from the normal, secular kind of finance ecosystem.

So then we can actually partner, with payment enablers, with Islamic banks, to see how we can actually extend this from Islamic finance literacy to actually investing back or actually saving through the Islamic way.

I can talk all day about where I can go into, even modest fashion, but I'm going to stop here. If not, it will never stop.

Sarah Chen-Spellings:

Yeah. Well, you're clearly very passionate about it. So I actually I’m so excited by this a few ways I want to take this.

You talk a little bit about the templatization or stereotype of what Muslims look like, a typical Muslim and what the activities that arise from this way of life or religion. I grew up in Malaysia, so I grew up in a Muslim majority country where I'm very familiar. I grew up listening to the Azan right?

But coming to America, I will say the interpretation concept of Islam feels very different and the moment that we are in today is very polarizing to say the least.

To start a business to address this challenging of stereotypes and this templatized version of Muslims.

Can you talk to us a little bit about? What are your thoughts here? Where are we getting things wrong? What is your view having worked in this space for now a couple of years?

Fara Abdullah:

That's an excellent question, Sarah. And to be honest, this is actually one of my biggest challenge, right?

How do I manage business that is very much intertwined with faith? And, you know, faith is really quite sensitive in all aspects, right? Regardless of which faith you're in.

So I think that has always been a challenge. However, I'm really passionate about it because, of course, apart from the challenges, there's so many opportunities that people are not seeing and people are not tapping because of these challenges, right?

So I make it a personal kind of mandate to, okay, a personal kind of goal to say, okay, if people can't do it, let me try to do it. Let me try to navigate through the nuances and let me try to serve this community.

A lot of people have misconceptions out there. They think that, okay, a Muslim, you have to just do certain things, act in a certain manner, and you're like this very unique kind of community that no one really knows very elusive and everything.

But actually we're just like you. We're just like any other people right? We go out, we eat, we want to dress nicely, we date, but how do we tackle this community that's so intricate and each market is very very different.

For example, we have just recently launched our AI chatbot. Of course, we're riding on the whole artificial intelligence. For me, I'm really excited about this new feature because this new feature actually allows discoverability and allows for Muslims to ask any questions regarding Islam on the go.

So this to me is a revolution on its own. Because right now when I want to ask certain questions on the normal platforms, I find that it's not potentially moderated or I might not get the verified answers that I need. This we hope will help Muslims understand, the religion better, regardless of where they are in their journey.

However, having said that, this comes with a lot of weight also, right?

We had to make sure that all of our sources are validated. We had to make sure that we verify it across multi different markets, Sharia law advisors, we had to go to SILA consulting, we had to make sure that we check everything to make sure that everything is referenced to the verified hadith, the Holy Quran and everything.

So this is what I mean that in everything that we do, we try to drive things forward but we need to always make sure that the Muslim needs, the Muslim perspective is always addressed. So I think this is a little bit the challenges, but also the opportunities that I see.

Sarah Chen-Spellings:

And can you talk to us a little bit about the opportunity here? I mean, not many of us have the lens that you do, right?

To think about 150 - did you say 160 million downloads annually? That's a huge base.

Can you talked to us a little bit about sort of the, TAM, SAM, SOM, total addressable market. Where do you see yourself in regard to addressing some of those market? And who are your competitors in space?

Fara Abdullah:

What we have is the first mover's advantage, right? A funny story here, Sarah. I think initially when we first started, we thought that we would be really big, and of course the markets like Indonesia, a huge number of Muslims out there.

But what was surprising was, we really took off in the Western Hemisphere, so US, UK, France, Germany, these are our key markets. Until today it still remains our strongest markets.

Now, why is that right? So I really think it's because that region are really underserved. It's not as accessible for them. Whether it's the halal food, whether it is the mosque nearby, or whether it's education for their kids, or even to understand certain things, right?

So that's why they turn to digital means in order to get the information. And I think here there is a huge, huge space for it, especially we saw this during COVID.

We have one of the highest numbers of users during COVID, and this might be surprising to some, but in our industry, this is I would say a very anticipated user behavior because during times of difficulty, people usually go to two things.

One is they will definitely go back to faith, right? Everything you do and especially now there's a lot of mental wellness issue, anxiety and everything. They all want to go back to what are their core beliefs, right? And often faith is very much integrated into that.

And secondly I also see that now with the modern lifestyle, a lot of young people also especially want to have content on the go, they want to learn on the go. They want to be able to entrench technology with faith together and that's where I see that that huge opportunity.

There is so many different segments that we can go to after it's limitless. There is short form content, community engagement content, user generated content. To be the content platform for Muslim makers out there, you know, that is one angle.

The other one we could always go into is the halal ecosystem. Now, halal ecosystem is huge. You can enter into multi multi different variances through the segue of content, right?

So say for example, tomorrow you have a fashion show on our app, right? Like a modest fashion show. And that's where we can actually collaborate with fashion partners. we can enter into commerce where we can actually see, okay, what kind of modest fashion do people want? Then we can actually introduce it.

Of course, there are a lot of other things within the halal ecosystem like food. There's so many things. And then, of course, the next big thing for us would be also to enter into Islamic finance. In everything, transactions are actually the underlying, there are so many people who are looking for micro finances, who don't have the means because they don't have credit card.

For example, our users in Indonesia, where the penetration of credit card is a bit lower. Similarly, in India, in Pakistan, we can actually find other ways in which we can help them t, make their zakat, get insurance.

So there's a lot, a lot of things. I feel like sometimes 24 hours a day is not enough and there's so many things that I want to do. And that we hope to prioritize in the next few months in order to move it.

See, I'm not even saying years. I'm saying month because, and you just now talk about competitors, right? So of course, we're seeing that this space is really heating up. Currently, we see a lot of competitors, but most of them are still very much either local or regional, very specific in the localization for their markets. Which is good, I think, for the users in the market.

However, it actually helps us to motivate us. to want to do better, to want to grow faster, to always want to be the thought leader in the space. And for me, I always tell my team also competition is really good because without competition, we will always be still stuck, doing the same thing that we've been doing for the past 10 years.

And I'm brought in to bring in the change, right? So of course, it's always good to have competition. Then we can learn different ideas and then we can move forward even faster and even bigger, right? What I think this space is also, it's okay to have competition. Because there is so much opportunity and potential in this space, that there is something for everyone.

So I really see that it's really good because then we expand the industry as a whole. We give back to our users. And our users have more options, more variety, and they can actually do a lot more things within the Islamic ecosystem.

Sarah Chen-Spellings:

I guess I want to narrow down a little bit, and view it from a business lens. So, the Muslim population as you know it today, are we talking about sort of 2 billion Muslims today?

Fara Abdullah:

I'm at 1.8 billion, but I know that it's going to grow, which accounts for like almost 24 percent of the world's population, right? I always tell my team, we're just at start.

Sarah Chen-Spellings:

Just at the starting point. But how do you think about sort of your ideal consumer profile? I mean it's easy to say like, all Muslims will use this. But when you, I guess, maybe when Erwan was in version one of Bitsmedia years ago, who was the ideal customer?

Has that changed? How are you doubling down? Where do you see the biggest revenue driver being?

These are three questions, but all coming from the angle of, where do you see the biggest growth and opportunity here?

Fara Abdullah:

Well, that's a question that we're still battling and we're still discussing internally all the time.

When it was started by our founder, Erwan, right? I think the user base was for those who wants to immerse themselves in the faith, for those who wants to use our app in and out. Just use it as a utility or tool to facilitate their practice of their faith and then out, right?

So for me, to be honest, it was a struggle. Because when I came on board, I had to balance like, okay, people are so used this app as a utility app. How do we get people to expand?

So utility I see it as is a basic function of as a Muslim, you pray, you read Quran, and you need that compass, right? And then, what's next? How do you integrate the faith into what you're doing a little bit more?

How do you really practice Islam throughout your whole lifestyle? How do you extend this to your family? So what we're doing is like I said content remains the most important part of this because through content you can educate, you can let them explore, and then from there we can move on to other things.

Back to your question whether this is going to be the same segment of people. I do see that there will be only faith group of people. They only want utility app and they will always be like that, right? So that's one. And that we will always endeavor to be the best.

So that's why recently we've just launched our Quran Redesign, a whole new UI UX where we introduce learning functions, memorizing functions, the AI chatbot. This is catered for people who really sees us as, okay, we're just the Quran app, we want the best digital Quran possible.

But what we see is that, some of these people, a percentage of these people and you know, the numbers are really encouraging. We're seeing a lot of our users are starting to dabble, starting to explore our content, starting to explore the other features that we're providing.

And this is not surprising too, because a lot of our users are actually young adults. A lot of them are very savvy, they're always up for the latest technology and whatnot. It's easier for them to transit and it's easier for them to accept new technologies. As long as we can really listen to them and ask them really what is it that they want.

An example would be, recently we just launched shorts, like the reels, you know, in Instagram and what not. It's not user generated, but it is actually in the essence to capture people, young adults, capture even an audience like us who currently now have like micro attention, right?

And of course, there is a huge segment out there, like I mentioned, 2 billion, we're just at 160 million downloads right now. There is a huge opportunity to recruit new users who come to us, seeing us for the first time as the digital platform of all things Muslim. Not just a utility app, but as the whole ecosystem, as the place that they can go to if they want good quality, they want a safe environment and space, they want verified partners, enablers that they could trust because we would have vetted all of them very, very thoroughly.

So I think there's a huge opportunity out there for us to recruit, but also to convert quite a bit of our users.

Sarah Chen-Spellings:

Yeah, when you started, I was thinking about the ideal ICP here, your ideal customer profile. Are these the digital native? When you think about your 160 million users, what sort of like the daily active users?

Are they mostly between the ages of 21 and 45? What are we looking at here?

Fara Abdullah:

Well, actually when we're looking at introducing new features, of course, we look closely to their user behavior patterns within our app. We see where are they located in.

We saw that they are mainly from the cities, right? A lot of them are from the key cities or the capitals of the countries. We also see that a lot of them are actually within that 21 to 35 age group.

We also have a very good balance of female and male also actually. Almost 50:50, which is something personally I'm really proud of. Because it shows that our product have evolved to actually really cater to both.

Essentially previously it was more of a little bit more male as opposed to female. But currently we've actually managed to have a 50:50 split. So to me, this just shows that we're actually providing products and services and features that resonates with a lot of our audience, a lot of our community.

Sarah Chen-Spellings:

Tell me a little bit more about the business model, where you see the biggest revenue drivers moving forward. Is this a ecosystem play, pay per transaction, or is it subscription that you see driving most of it?

Fara Abdullah:

Okay. So currently we're on two business models essentially, we have two predominant ones.

One is ads, right? Advertising. And most of it were actually on programmatic ads. Essentially we work with the Googles, and the Meta, they have programmatic advertising softwares and platforms, right? For people to just bid and then they will actually put in their advertising in. So that is our predominant model right now.

We also have subscriptions. So of course, the free and then the premium versions. And with that, we're also actually offering a lot more different options.

Right now, we only have monthly and annual. We're looking to have shorter timeframes, longer timeframes, for more value add for people who have different needs.

We're also looking to, would you like utilities only? Do you like content? Do you like it as a totality? Do you want a family version? Do you want an individual version?

So these are all coming up, right? So this is how we actually really cater to and customize, personalize to what our users really want. But I think this is just the beginning and I'm sure a lot of our users out there, they see that ads. I want to be frank here, ads is actually pretty disruptive, right? To the usage of the app.

So of course, right now, this is one of the only options that we have because we started off like that. This is how we actually sustain the business.

But having said that, what I will really like is to invest in partnerships. What we're also starting to do is actually to partner with a lot of Muslim brands and Muslim organizations out there. Because for me, I think these Muslim brands and organizations, not only can they bring value ad to our users by providing a very synergistic kind of product services.

Whether we work with travel enablers, who have this whole package of going to Umrah and Hajj, and how can we come together; whether we work with people who are into the halal ecosystem, the halal restaurants and everything.

I feel that through partnerships, we can make our app a little bit less disruptive. There could still be ads, but relevant ads. Ads that can actually help you to see, okay, how can I practice my faith a little bit better? How can I support the businesses that is within my community a bit better?

I would see it as a bit more value add as opposed to random ads that's just coming up. So that's one. Secondly, we also see payments as a very big thing that is we're entering into. Like I said, a lot of our, a lot of business models out there, the underlying thing is transactions, right?

This Ramadan we're already having some partnerships with regards to zakat. Zakat is essentially for all Muslims, we will give back to the community. It's like a, a donation, right? It's like how we give back to the community yearly.

What we're doing is we're partnering with verified big players, Muslim enablers out there, to facilitate zakat. It's like the purification of our wealth, and so we want to see how we facilitate this.

Now this is just the beginning. It could be potentially having wallets in our app to facilitate cause marketing, cause-related initiatives. We just raised more than half a million for a cause. This is done through a partner at the moment, but potentially we could do a little bit more.

We could do a lot more actually by market and everything by having that in our app. And then we're also looking to see how we can actually facilitate, have our apps, say for example, integrated with more distribution partners. The things that maybe really helps them in their endeavor to be closer to God.

So these are some of the things that we're trying to do.

Sarah Chen-Spellings:

Super fascinating. I mean, Fara, it sounds like there are so many avenues, so many opportunities here with regard to building the entire ecosystem.

I guess this is a question that a lot of our CEOs are also faced with, right? Where do you prioritize your resources? Which path do you go down first? And what I want to understand is how do you, not so much the decision, but how are you thinking about making this decision on where the focus areas would be?

Fara Abdullah:

Well, that's a very good question because honestly, we're always struggling with that, right? So many things to do and should have been done yesterday.

One of my key strength, but also weaknesses, I would say is that I'm not the most patient of a person, right? So I'm always saying to my team, let's do it, let's do it by tomorrow.

But I would say that to prioritize, we have to actually really evaluate the market readiness and the user readiness with this product. And how we do that is through really understanding our user behavior patterns and creating, I would say bridges to help them transition to the next big thing.

An example would be, we were very well known for the Qur'an, but it's very one way. So now what we're doing is that we're entering into interactive learning features, we're entering into memorization features to facilitate this, right?

And from there, from an audio version, we're now bringing in video, we're bringing in interactive content. Potentially we're coming in with live streaming. So these are some of the things that, it's small bridges first to what is their core need for our app, and then after that we seek way to that.

But of course we are also looking at the biggest opportunity out there. An example, a lot of our current users out there are really struggling with mental wellness. So this is the current thing that is hot on everyone's mind right now.

So we're also now starting to see, okay, what can we do to facilitate this? Can we connect to spiritual leaders who can help them, overcome this in a manner of faith, can we introduce verses, surrahs?

Can we give them reminders, push notifications throughout the day to actually help them remind them of, it's okay, this life is a little bit challenging, but with this you can overcome it. Can we give them the tools to overcome this, whether it's through our app or it's through connecting with other partners out there.

So I would say this is how we're making our decisions what to prioritize next. And of course our investors also, we actually choose investors who are very synergistic strategically with us also. So with that, they gave us a lot of insights as to what are the current trends, where should we go to, what is the forecasted trends.

And then of course they give us that network and connections to make things happen even faster than how it is.

Sarah Chen-Spellings:

I guess a couple of things there that that came up for me. First question is on faith, right?

You talked a little bit about how you're responding to consumer feedback and the behaviors that you're observing. How do you see the role of technology in shaping faith and vice versa?

Fara Abdullah:

Technology in shaping faith. I think there's a few things there, right?

I see it as using technology to enhance the access to religious knowledge. This is a very powerful tool, right? Because not everyone have that accessibility, not everyone have that time, not everyone have that means.

So technology has revolutionized access to religious texts, teachings, and scholarly interpretations, making it easier than ever for individuals to explore and to access. So for us, this is one of our mandates to make it easier and more accessible for them.

We've just entered into certain markets, we want to enter into a lot more markets so that we can help them see, okay, we are all practicing that faith and we can use technology in order to do that better.

Technology is also a means for us to bring the community together. So I think virtual communities and, you know, digital gatherings are going to be a norm in the future. The other day I was just going for an Apple Vision Pro demo and it blew my mind, right? Like the fact that you can, it's a very immersive, everything is immersive, right?

And I kept on thinking, okay, this could, how could it be adapted to, faith and technology, right? Instead of going to the mosque, all of us will be sitting in a room, using that using Apple Vision Pro, for example, right?

So I would say that the rise of digital platform has enabled formations of global virtual communities, which is really important because as more and more people are feeling a little bit more secluded. I think it can bring people together to practice the faith and learn from each other.

And then I would also say that technology also enables a lot more personalization of the religious experiences. Last time, you know, I still remember all you can do is maybe go to a religious class or go to a mosque, right? And then this is where they will say, you should do this, you should do that.

What if you're a new convert, right? Suddenly you're asked to cover up? Suddenly you're asked to do this, this, this, it might seem a little bit harsh to you.

I think technology can help to personalize this experience, religious experience such that wherever you are in your journey to be closer to the faith, there will be something for you. And not in an imposing or not in a manner that might be daunting to you. It might be just something that, okay, I'm at this phase, this is what I get right?

So that's why a lot of AI tools are actually going to be used for not only recognition, but also recommendation engines to see, we will ask questions: Where you are in terms of your faith? Where do you want to be? What kind of level or what kind of improvements do you want in one year's time? And we can customize it for you.

Lastly, I would just say that, Islam is such a diverse community group, right? Like I mentioned just now, even within Islam, there's so many sects, many different ideologies, everything, right?

So I would say that technology can actually help through compiling all of these, through providing a platform for them to learn, and then to actually help. I would also say moderate certain things so that, okay, there are technical considerations, there are also ethical considerations,

 I would say this is how I see technology merging with faith.

Sarah Chen-Spellings:

And Fara, that's a very important point that I was going to get to. I mean, even with Instagram, Meta platforms, any platform, right? The idea of moderation and ethical interpretation, what's right, what's wrong. How do you think about this?

And how are you guided in making sure that, the community remains a safe place where there can be diverse views and yet, with the banner of religion, which can be, as you said earlier, can be a sensitive topic for different people.

Fara Abdullah:

I think it's coming, you know, Sarah, regardless of how afraid we are of it, how much we want to preserve certain things. I think this technology wave is coming, we cannot steer away from it. But what we can do is really try to see how we can create that environment of safety, of moderation, of a verified kind of environment, right?

This is where Muslim Pro especially has been really quite consistent in what we do. So what we managed to do is we are an inclusive platform. So we put the information that is relevant, verified out there. We actually make sure that all of the information that we have there are verified.

Sarah Chen-Spellings:

What does that mean? Verified by what standards?

Fara Abdullah:

So, we will actually go organizations that actually have that religious backings, religious verification, teachings that actually says, okay, this is our stand on this.

But what we're also saying is that, okay, apart from that, we're also getting multi religious leaders, religious organizations to come together and say, this is what we have. These are all the different kinds of guidelines that we have.

So what we are doing as a platform is that, we're saying that we don't claim to be the holy compass for Muslims. No, that's not what we intend to do at all. But what we intend to do is to provide the platform for you to get the first layer of verified information and everything.

And if you want to learn more, you can always ask. We will direct you to certain sources. What we are doing is that we're the platform that actually provides this information. And we try our very best.

It's not easy, It is a very tedious process of verification of working with different organizations to ensure that ethically it's okay. But having said that, we do see that AI is going to really help in this.

Because a lot of what is being done, moderation previously was being done very manually, right? But through AI, of course, it's still at its initial stages, but I believe that through AI we can actually moderate a lot more.

Sarah Chen-Spellings:

How do you think about that though? That's a very curious point because we make a parallel to other religions, right?

Even Christianity, right? There's many different interpretations of that and to be sort of the, I like your word there, the compass, the source of truth, right?

How do you think about your role and what are the guardrails here for an organization that really is across UK, France, Germany, how many countries are you in? It's all different interpretations, right? How do you think about that?

Fara Abdullah:

Honestly, I don't think that we're the compass or we don't strive to be that. Actually for me, my intention has always been to be the enabler, to assist people in accessibility in getting this information, should they want to learn more or should they want it.

So I see myself as enabling the community to find out more. Now, do I say that we are teaching certain values or certain pillars and everything?

No, but what we're doing is that we're the platform that we try as much as possible to keep all the things that is definitely wrong, that is definitely not ethical or not right.

And then, we use this set of very rigorous guidelines and then you can come here, you can learn, you can take the information that you have, and then you can go back, to ask your own religious leaders, to find out more. But at least there is a starting point. At least there is a stepping stone.

Honestly, it's a huge responsibility. I think about it all the time, especially as a Muslim too, there's really a compass of, am I doing the right thing, the wrong thing? But I always feel that if I could make a difference, a slight difference in just 1% or 2%, I think that would be a win already.

Back to your question, I would say it's more of we are enabling them, not that we're teaching or anything, but we're enabling them to access this kind of tools, this kind of content that will actually help them to understand, and if they want to get closer to the faith.

Sarah Chen-Spellings:

A couple of quick questions here.

One is, do you think that we're becoming less religious, more spiritual, more religious? Or what are you observing?

I'm just observing here in the US has been definitely a decline of people going to religious institutions, right? So for example, going to church, this is something that a lot of my peers are thinking about, like, how do we get people back into the churches, the mosque, things like that.

What are you observing here?

Fara Abdullah:

Well, I think this world has evolved so quickly. I was making a joke the other day to my family that, it's not true that we have 24 hours a day anymore. It's actually less, it's just that the clock is still saying 24 hours, it's going faster, because we really feel that right now, right?

And I think faith has always had the power to heal in challenging and in difficult times. And to be honest, I really feel that we are in a challenging times. There's a lot of complexity, a lot of things that's happening in the world. A lot of people are starting to feel detached, they're not feeling as connected as they were before.

So many find solace always in faith, and they can find guidance, comfort, not only the faith, but the community that believes in the faith. A lot of the faith out there, regardless whether it's Muslims or not, I always believe that faith are all the same, promoting the same thing to be good, to do good things, to be closer, to your communities, to be kind and everything.

I don't know, per se, if they're becoming more religious, but I do know that they are finding something to be like the north star during this challenging times. I also think that how they're reaching out to the community is also evolving.

Like I said, last time it used to be just going to the mosque, having these physical gatherings. But now people are finding solace in using social media to build communities, right? Using social media to promote more readings of the Quran. To promote let's watch good content together. Let's do good things together. Let's come together for a cause.

So I think this is currently a very, very good kind of movement that's happening.

Sarah Chen-Spellings:

The socialization of faith, actually. Love that.

Back in the day, I was just listening to one of our friends who is one of the earlier pioneers of social shopping. Back in the day, people were like, what, what, why would you want to social shop? But it's so common, right?

We save, we share, you know, with our friends, like, hey, what'd you think about this top, this dress? And I guess the same phenomenon is happening with faith.

So the socialization of faith, and that's exactly what you are doing in many ways. I love it.

Last few questions. Fundraising, choosing the right partners.

I know you talked about this. You just had a Series A round, but Bitsmedia has a bit of a curious history with CMIA in 2017, Affin Hwang majority stake there.

Tell us a little bit about the story of the funding round and what this means for Bitsmedia.

Fara Abdullah:

In 2017, CMIA and Affin came on board to invest in Bitsmedia. And to be very frank, we were a sustainable business. We were a sustainable business all this while.

Tech startups is always like, a little bit more of bleeding at the very beginning, but for us, we've always been sustainable. So this is amazing, given that we had a very small team and CMIA and Affin coming on board really helped us strategically to see, okay, now you have gotten this database. Now you've gotten this user base. What else can you do?

Because if not, in two to three years, all the competition is coming up, you will not be relevant anymore. So that's where they came in with the expertise, their foresight. And then he said, okay, what's next after this?

So recently we just got our Series A funding from Gobi and a few others also coming together. I think it is an excellent move. One, it just shows that this industry has so much potential and we are just at the beginning of it.

To see that other investors out there, they really recognize the potential of the coming up 2 billion Muslims, right? Of course they are all, previously I think a lot of people are shying away because of the complexity of the Muslim faith and everything.

But actually there's a few very, very brave and I think very, very good investors who also see that. Yes, it might be complex, but like all complex things, there is also a huge, market here.

So I think, with Gobi especially, we were very happy with this investment because they're actually the pioneers to really advocate for Taqwa tech.

So I think with that, they bring a lot of expertise, they bring a lot of thought, they push us all strategically also, how can we go into different segments. And of course, being in the Taqwa tech space, it also allows us to tap on their network of existing investors or investments or portfolio companies that we can leverage on to go bigger and faster.

When we're selecting an investor, it doesn't just need to be investors who of course have look at us economically, but also it's very important for us that the investors really believe in this space, in the whole Muslim ecosystem, and that they are strategically good for us. Because they can either help us connect or help us broaden our expertise, mindset.

Sarah Chen-Spellings:

Okay. Well, a lot more angles we could cover. We could have teh tarik and continue conversations for the rest of the day, for sure.

Billion dollar questions, quick ones, right? So first thing that comes to mind.

Biggest career mistake?

Fara Abdullah:

I mentioned just now a little bit that I think one of my strength and my weakness is my impatience, right?

So I would say that my biggest career mistake, stemming from this impatience, which I’m still struggling and I’m still learning. But I hope I’m getting better with it.

I've learned that if you want to go fast, you go alone; if you want to go big and you want to sustain, you better have a very strong team and you better go together with everyone, getting everyone together.

So I think that has been one of my more costly mistakes, I would say at the very beginning, because I get burnt out, right? And I can't see every single perspective. Also not being from the tech field initially, there's a lot of learning curves, right? So I really needed a very, very strong team, not only the team, but shareholders, buy ins and investors to really come together.

And of course, I would also say personal reflection. I think I could do a lot better in reading intentions of people and the real objective.

I think if I was able to do that a little bit better, I would be able to, really identify very quickly, what will work, what will not, how do I communicate with them and what kind of strategies should I take?

So I think over the years, almost 20 years now in the working space, I think I've learned to read people a little bit more, and understand behind the layers of the many things that they're saying. Which has made it a little bit easier for me to manage.

Sarah Chen-Spellings:

Success is?

Fara Abdullah:

Success is resilience. No matter what.

Sarah Chen-Spellings:

Failure is?

Fara Abdullah:

Failure is giving up.

Sarah Chen-Spellings:

Money or power?

Fara Abdullah:

Power.

Sarah Chen-Spellings:

Fame or fortune?

Fara Abdullah:

Fortune.

Sarah Chen-Spellings:

First job you got paid for.

Fara Abdullah:

A telemarketer to sell National Geographic magazines to people over the phone.

Sarah Chen-Spellings:

Oh, love it. What is your crucible moment? Like the one moment in your life that has shaped you?

Fara Abdullah:

Being rejected from the school that I really want to go to, and taking the unconventional route, which is to go into private school and also studying at the same time.

So I was juggling studying, full time studies, taking tuition on the sides to supplement, and then, of course, trying not to miss out on my social life.

But I think this moment has actually really defined me. Because of that, I'm like doing everything at a go, you know, and I learned to multitask I guess very, very well.

Sarah Chen-Spellings:

Advice to a younger Fara?

Fara Abdullah:

Never stop asking questions. It might be annoying to some, even if you ask the wrong questions, that's how you stand out from the crowd.

And also don't be so disheartened when people say no to you because after 10 no's there will be a yes somewhere.

Sarah Chen-Spellings:

To wrap this up to bring us home here, favorite verse from the Quran?

Fara Abdullah:

Something that I always go to is that, whatever will be, will be.

For me, there's a lot of things that we can do. We can go 110%, but ultimately it is up to God to really determine things for you.

Sarah Chen-Spellings:
Could you say that in Arabic?

Fara Abdullah:

I think, please don't show this to my mum.

Sarah Chen-Spellings:

This is not good. CEO of Bitsmedia, come on.

Fara Abdullah:

Okay but please don’t judge me - it's actually “kun fa ya kun”.

“kun fa ya kun” means that whatever will be, will be.

Means that you can try your very best. Let go and let God.

Sarah Chen-Spellings:

Oh, I love that. Let go and let God.

And with that, Farah Abdullah, thank you so much for your time, for this deep conversation on faith and technology. So much more that we could uncover there.

And I really hope to spend some more time with you in Singapore when I'm there.

Fara Abdullah:

Yes, please do. Whenever you're here, ring me up. I'll bring you out.

Sarah Chen-Spellings:

All right. Thank you so much. And keep making billion dollar moves.

Fara Abdullah:

Thank you so much.