The Power of Multigenerational Female Leadership w/ Ida Liu, Global Head, Citi Private Bank

Amy Lau:

Here with us is Ida Liu. She heads globally the private wealth business for Citi. And then we have Sarah who founded Beyond The Billion and was on 30 Under 30 for Forbes Under VC.

So, we're very glad to have them here today and we'll have a great conversation. First, about how we can direct more investments into female led businesses. And then secondly, a topic that we all care deeply about is how do we create and sustain a career in finance and in investing.

So now without further ado, let's begin. Ida, can you tell us a little bit more about the private wealth business and also what role do you think private bank plays in directing investment into female businesses?

Ida Liu:

Wonderful. Thank you. So, firstly, hello and good afternoon everyone. It's so nice to spend Friday afternoon with all of you. I can't think of a better way to end a very hectic week, than with a room full of extraordinarily talented females.

So delighted to spend some time with you alongside with Sarah today. So, the private bank at Citi, currently runs about a trillion of assets and we generate about revenues $3 billion plus in the business. We operate in 52 different cities in 20 countries around the world. We are the most global, most institutional private bank in the world.

And we work with families and their businesses to solve all different types of wealth management needs, including investing, lending, banking, trust and estate planning, wealth planning, and all different types of strategies for their companies. So that's in a nutshell what we do.

All of you know that we are in the midst of one of the largest wealth transfers in history. About 70 trillion of wealth is going to be transferred to next gen and millennials. And women today control about a third of global wealth. And that number is only going to go up in the next decade. So, rest assured that we are seeing so many changes of behavior and the way that we're investing on behalf of our country.

So let me give you an example of this. Women and next gen and millennials care deeply about investing with purpose, making a positive change with their investments. And so in the future, in the next three to five years, I don't think we're going to be hearing about ESG or impact investing as a separate sleeve.

I think it's going to become part and parcel and core in all of our clients portfolios. So we're really excited about evolution. I'm thrilled to be supporting women in wealth, and as you can imagine, I'm particularly passionate about it because our CEO, Jane Fraser, is the first female to lead a global financial institution.

I am also a female. 50 percent of my team globally is a female. Half of our board are women. So you can imagine the focus on women and women's advancement of women in wealth management is high.

Amy Lau:

Sarah, why don't you tell us a bit more about Beyond The Billion that you co-founded and also give us a lay of the land on investing, how VCs are investing in female owned businesses.

Sarah Chen-Spellings:

You amazing ladies here this afternoon. The answer was an immediate. Yes, the work that I've done in the last decade, almost of my career, you know, one way or the other has been about fueling women's ambition, power and influence in many different ways, right?

My background was in corporate venture capital, which brings me to the Billion Dollar Fund for Women, which is now known as Beyond The Billion where I was like, perhaps many of you in the room and perhaps the speakers that you've heard from all today felt like the first and the only. And understood very deeply what that meant in terms of our voice at the table, the decisions that we brought to the table and what that means for the world that we invested in.

And that inspired me to think a little bit more deeply about what my realm of impact could be in my career and how I could merge my passion. My purpose and also bring that to some level of profit. So my background was in investing in sort of series b and c for a public listed company at a corporate venture capital unit.

Moved to the US, lo and behold as a bright eyed Malaysian girl I was surprised to learn that even in America, which is the beacon of innovation Women were getting the short end of the stick right until today unfortunately, the So yes, the amounts of venture capital going into women has increased by the total dollar amount, but the proportion of that is still under 3%.

And in fact, last year, that number is even lower than it's ever been since 2016, right? So we're looking at 1.9 to 2%. And why venture capital? if you think about the top 10 companies by market cap today, many of them are venture backed. They are shaping the way we think, the way we live the way we work and the way we move forward as society and for us not to have a voice in shaping that to me is a huge missed opportunity and the world is truly poorer for it. So when I met my co-founder Shelly, who Ida also knows, we connected as multi-generational women And lamenting at the fact that this is not changing at a quick enough rate.

Yes, there were mentorship programs or programs like this, but what we knew needed to change first and foremost, and what would really move the dial was the capital that was going to women. And so the big Harry audacious goal was the billion dollar fund for women, which was to get a billion dollars into the hands of women founded companies within a timeframe.

So it was a capital campaign. We created a momentum with different markets that we never expected, frankly. And within nine months, we got to the billion dollar goal. And just to give you context, back then, 2018 was when we launched this. In 2017, that 2.2 percent was about $1.9 billion. So we thought a billion dollars within, like, maybe ten years, we'll maybe achieve this goal in ten years. That's a reasonable, you know, goal. We could do that.

But when the friends of our venture community said, yes, this is the moment. And remember, the moment is fresh off the Me Too movement. They wanted to make a stand and signal to the community that, hey, this is not on and we can do something different.

And so we mobilized an entire community, at that time it was about 86 venture capital funds, to commit a dollar amount. To be invested into women founded companies and the aggregate total of that was a billion dollars and happy to know we're now in 2023. So in under two years, $638 million of that first billion has been deployed into close to 800 female founded companies, of which 14 today are unicorns.

So more than anything, we are seeing women continue to innovate, continue to do the right thing and our world is so much better for it, and just to piggyback off what Ida was saying, you know, we started working a lot more with family offices, actually, with family offices and next gen investors, the LP, so the limited partners that invest in venture capital funds, and realized that this is really what the future is going to look like, right?

Investing is not just another sleeve for impact, but it is really reflecting all the values. That individuals that we're working with, uh, represent and we're excited to be working with the entire community from founder, GP, and LP through Beyond The Billion today.

Amy Lau:

Very impressive to hear what you've achieved.

I think it's interesting that, what you mentioned is that VC seems to be a hotbed for sort of these diversity centered investing strategies, right?

And do we think that there's potential for this to move to other asset classes? That they can also maybe think about how they can adopt certain female centric strategies or diversity centric strategies.

Ida Liu:

Absolutely. So, first and foremost, and as I was talking about the preferences for the next generation and women investors, they want to invest with purpose, make an impact. And one of those ways is on gender equity. So from that lens, in the private bank, we offer many ways to play with gender equity, right?

It's not just investing in companies and private equity firms run by women investing in women owned businesses. It's also by investing in companies with great diversity on their boards and in their leadership teams.

So there's many ways that each of us, as investors on behalf of large family offices and UHNW individuals can do our part in advancing, the state of the world, and so it extends beyond VC.

Sarah Chen-Spellings:

Absolutely. And I think, you know, that's where the conversation is going, right? I was just with a couple of friends earlier this week as they were thinking about building their foundation and how they're going to be investing that time, resource and capital and alternatives as a whole.

I think, the conversation is now shifting, as I just said into how can I think about this holistically? So venture, of course, especially for the next generations, it's very exciting for them, right? Because it's real, you get to work with the companies, you get to see the impact within a short period of time because there's pressure for returns, in venture as well.

Well, within a certain timeframe, you want to have a 3X, 6X, whatever return based on that. And so it feels very exciting for the next generation. But I think they're also realizing that across the spectrum, whether that's in real estate where a lot of families put their wealth in, whether that's in public markets.

They're thinking more sort of intentionally about the power of their check and what that represents. It

Amy Lau:

Seems like there is a lot of interest and intention in moving towards that direction. Do you have any positive stories to share about how this type of strategy delivered really good value for the investors?

Sarah Chen-Spellings:

You want to go down the numbers. Where do I start? So, I mean, it's really clear, right? I think one of the initial questions that you asked me was, why is it so hard to move the conversation forward when the data is already there? And we've known this for a while, first round capital, McKinsey, BCG.

The outperformance when women founded teams are invested in is 23 to 63%. We're talking about returns on invested capital returns on equity, even in public listed companies. So the data is there, but more than data. I think what we need to surface and continue to do at our firm globally is really the stories in which why this matters, right?

What does the power off Putting, you know, a couple million dollars do into a company that's led by a gender diverse team. We see this across the spectrum from the way she thinks about addressing a problem. So first and foremost, I think we all know, uh, and you've perhaps experienced this in your life, where your voice as a consumer may be underserved because guess what?

Who's designing this product? It doesn't look like you and I. Even in Femtech, I just had, the COO of Thinx recently on my podcast and we were talking about just the power of how much Femtech is really expanding. And yet when you look at some of the top companies that are serving women, they're run by men.

And this needs to change. You know, I have all the data points for you and even from, not just sort of the consultants. I know some of you are ex consultants, but from our own portfolio of partner funds, right? So I'll give you a clear example. We work with Gobi partners based based in Southeast Asia.

There are about two billion assets under management. And when they first took the pledge, they said, Okay, um, let's do 50 million and see how we go from there. Because we see it. We see it a little bit, right? We see the women in Asia are performing, but Let's see how this goes, right? Usually it's, let's take a big bet, let's see how it goes.

And now, once we did the reporting, they came back to us, Ida and, and, Amy, and said, guess what, Sarah? We looked at the numbers. Not only are they outperforming, the retention rates, in terms of staff, which translates into profitability, is a lot higher in women led and gender diverse teams. And so, now, our job becomes a lot easier, because our partner funds are saying, guess what, we're seeing this real time.

And we all need to do this. This is a no brainer. frankly, you know, this still needs to change, but the check writers at the GP level. So the VC funds, a lot of the decision makers still are men right in the investment committees. It's still men. But when they see these outperformance, they're like, Well, it's a no brainer.

What else can we do? That's true.

Ida Liu:

That's true. I'm just going to add on to something that Sarah said, because I think it's super important. So women make 70% of consumption decisions. So when we make 70% of the consumption decisions, we better be mirroring like what women prefer and what they expect.

So, the other thing I wanted to mention is the private bank, is more than 50 percent women. I am more than 50 percent women on my leadership team, and we're over 40 percent diverse. And I truly believe that that diversity of perspectives, viewpoints, and the diversity of our leadership team is driving the over performance in our business.

So, I think it's incredibly critical what Sarah said, is that time and time again, we see that diverse teams, And at the end of the day, you don't have to give up any performance to make a bet on a woman. In fact, you're probably going to get better performance, by making a woman leader.

So, we're highly encouraged, right? But awareness and what gets measured gets done is very important.

Amy Lau:

Yes, I think I had this quote, Ida, of what you said before. You said, our community of clients is incredibly diverse, representing every gender, background, culture, and walk of life. We believe that they are best served by teams that mirror them. I guess that encapsulates what you just said.

So as future associates who are joining these large banks, or as future, you know, investors in this room, so I think a lot of people here in the audience are also aspiring entrepreneurs. So how do you think we can best leverage these opportunities to create success as well?

Ida Liu:

All of the women in this audience who are thinking about starting something or creating something, I think it's so important first and foremost to make sure that you have I have a really solid network. I think it's so important, um, and I can't underscore that enough. It's been so many different, network navigations on my behalf in transitioning in multiple careers over my, my life, right?

 I started in investment banking, and I transitioned into running a global fashion company, and then back into private banking. So it sounds a little all over the place, but actually, in my humble opinion, it was combining the best of both worlds and looking at where my gaps were. So my advice to those of you who are just getting started, build your networks, think outside of the box, challenge yourself a bit.

When I was in investment banking, everybody said, why would you go into fashion? But the reality is I had two job offers out of college, and one of 'em was to be a fashion buyer and the other was to be an MA investment banker. So I went the M&A investment banking route, but I always had in the bed, should I be in the fashion industry because I loved it so much.

And so when the time came, I made a pivot into the fashion industry. And I learned so much from my training in investment banking. I will never ever give that up. It was one of the best, uh, trainings. And, and, you know, understanding financial evaluation and analysis that you can get. But then pivoting to the fashion industry and working for an idol of mine, Vivienne Tam.

She's the first Chinese designer to achieve success in fashion. And she's the first designer to meet and mix this East meets West aesthetic. And I helped her build out her business globally. I opened up her distribution in many standing stores in China. and we launched many interesting strategic collaborations for her with Mandarin Oriental, with Cathay Pacific, with Hewlett Packard, and the like.

But what was interesting to me is every fashion designer that I would meet in the fashion industry would ask me, What stock should I buy? What font should I buy? How should I invest my money? And I would say, time out. I was an investment banker. I can give you corporate advisory advice, but not wealth management.

But nonetheless, it made me realize that there was a massive void of wealth management solutions for the fashion industry. So I pitched the concept to Citi 16 and a half years ago to launch and lead a fashion, retail, and entertainment practice for the private bank. Something that did not exist in private banking at the time. And the rest is history. So, ladies, what I'm trying to share from this experience set is that you sometimes have to create your own destiny.

You have to think about your path. You have to think about the skill sets that you have today. What else do you need to build upon your skill set? I have the technical financial evaluation from investment banking. I have the running and operating of a small company globally from Vivienne Tam. And now, I have the wealth management capabilities, too, that I think are so important, no matter what industry you are in.

So chart it out a bit, be strategic, and don't be afraid to reach out and ask, you know, your network along the way for help. And by the way, all those pivots were because of people that I met,

along the way. The fashion

internship that I did in college gave me the opportunity to work with Vivian.

the contacts I made in investment banking brought me back to finance and wealth management many years later.

Amy Lau:

Didn't know some of the Vivienne Tam stores I went to in China. That was because of you.

Sarah Chen-Spellings:

You have Ida to thank, this is what happens when you put great women in leadership.

Amy Lau:

Yeah. Just now you mentioned the power of network. You have been part of many amazing networks and how that helped you grow?

Sarah Chen-Spellings:

Yeah, sure. So we're both YGLs. I mean, Ida will say she's an OGL, which by the way. I call it original gangster. So we learn, but this is the reality, right? And I hope you all appreciate this moment of multigenerational women still fighting for all of you. And truthfully, we stand on the shoulders of each other to continue to lift each other up.

And that is really key in everything that you do, right? Moving forward. I mean, for networks. I can't speak enough on the power of networks. I mean, think about where I've come from in the last couple of years. I was born in Malaysia. I started movement because I didn't see women in leadership like me when I was in corporate venture capital and the public listed company, happened to be really good at it.

I started lean in in Malaysia, which borrows from the Sheryl Sandberg term lean in. She invites me to her house in Palo Alto to have dinner with her and then my trajectory changes to being in the US right and I couldn't be the Billion Dollar Fund For Women globally.

We have 120 plus funds on our platform that's touching the lives of at least 1000 portfolio companies. I couldn't do that without the power of so many others who have continued to lift me up. And the YGL, which is the Young Global Leaders of the World Economic Forum, are young professionals under the age of 40. So you get chosen under the age of 40, they always say it's not for what you've done.

Yes, you've done something good in your life to be selected, but it's also for the potential that they see in you, right? And what it has really encouraged me to think about is, frankly, how can I think a little bit bigger, right? A lot of things that I thought I've only read about this in books like now I'm interviewing authors of these books on my podcast and they're my friends and we're hanging out like David Epstein, wrote a really powerful book about the power of just thinking differently right outside of the box.

Having good people around you really challenges you to think more than, you know, Oprah when she sort of opened the, uh, shades of, um, her portrait and the National Portrait Gallery, right? She said it's, this is a dream. I never knew I had, like, how do I even dream of this?

And I think the power of a network is that right? Because then you see others ahead of you in life in terms of, you know, where they are. And you ask yourself, well, if she can do it, why can't I? And that's been the biggest takeaway for me. Like nobody, frankly, has it figured it out. You just take one step and the next step and the next step.

And that's really about, you know, uh, the power of network, asking the question, not being afraid to say, Hey, I don't know. and especially for me as an entrepreneur, we're building an investment firm, but. I have no idea how to get to, you know, the point that Ida has, but she knows, right?

And it's in these powerful rooms that the exchange of information happens and that you inspire each other to think bigger.

Ida Liu:

Well, I can tell you, you inspire us for sure, Sarah. But I will tell you this,seeing is believing. And we all have to pay it forward. And I think that we, all three of us, come from a very unique vantage point.

We're all facing a double ceiling. We have the glass ceiling over here, and we have the bamboo ceiling over there. And I think that most of us in this room would probably agree that the glass ceiling is partially shattered. Um, particularly at an institution like Citi, where I just mentioned to you we have the first female CEO leading a global institution with Jane Fraser.

On top of that, we believe that what gets measured gets done. So holding people accountable for the advancement of women. And we also were the first global financial institution to release our gender pay gap numbers. We did that five years ago because we wanted to improve and make that completely equal and I'm pleased to say that we reached parity last year.

So, in addition to that, the fact that we have over 50 percent women on the board is incredibly important. So this is all game changing, right, for the women in our institution. But, on the other hand, on the bamboo ceiling side, we have a lot of work. So, I actually head our Asian Heritage Network at Citi, and we have identified so many challenges with, uh, our Asian women and, and other Asians, getting sort of stuck in the middle and not being promoted up to the top.

So we are doing everything we can to encourage the right kind of sponsorship, mentorship, the right kind of training and development programs, the right kind of networking opportunities, um, to make sure that we can advance and pull, next generation of Asians up as well. But just to answer the question on what you can each be doing, think about organizations that you're passionate about, get involved.

For me, the Citi Women's Network, was one of the networks that I joined when I first joined Citi 16 and a half years ago. And as a result of that, I went to my first Citi Women's Leadership Development Program and I met 30 amazing women who are still my dearest friends today. We call on each other all the time.

And outside of my organization, I am a very active alum of Wellesley College and of course Wharton. And the network there is extraordinary. So keep in touch with all these fabulous women in this room that are going to help. You know, help each other out. And the last piece is, as Sarah has rightly said, our YGL communities are also very powerful.

If there's organizations like that that appeal to you, um, you should absolutely get involved. For me, I'm also a member of the YPO organization, the Young Presidents Organization. I hosted a women's dinner this week to recruit more women into YPO because unfortunately we have a tiny percentage. Uh, and I'm Really on a mission to make sure that we get that, better ratio.

Amy Lau:

I think those are also really great tips of how some of us who are joining large banks or large institutions, um, we then move up once we're in there.

You both lead teams. Big teams. The private bank is a great business. Beyond The Billion also has a team. You also lead like a consortium. How would you describe your leadership philosophy? And how do you think being a woman maybe helps.

Sarah Chen-Spellings:

Hmm. Good question. Well, I will say maybe the scope is slightly different, right? I remember being a leader in a corporate setting and what that means for being a woman in leadership, especially if you're sort of the minority. And frankly, you know, running your own business, which is what I'm doing right now, it's been very liberating in some way, but also very scary, frankly, because then, unlike if you're in a corporate setting, you sort of have, oh, there's somebody there that I can look up to.

Maybe this is the style that I should pick. Maybe this is what the norm is. Whereas for me, it's almost like free fall. And you gotta figure it out along the way, right? But I guess the word that I would use is, um, perhaps very grounded in my leadership. Um, I am very frank with where we are, where we want to be, and where we're not yet. And that is, I guess, authentic to me.

I rest on the fact that I stand for what needs to happen in the moment and I rise to the occasion and I do it in a way that's fair and frank. Grounded to be, as Ida said, an accountable leader, uh, that's frankly taking on a very, very big, hairy, audacious goal for the globe.

Ida Liu:

So three things for me. Listening, and active listening, and being a great listener is a superpower. Secondly, it is very important to me that I'm a player coach.

Another thing is that everyone in my business, they also arguably have a lot of EQ, because we're inclined. So you have to have that empathy, the relationship management, the ability to lead your client who you're sitting across from very well. But what's really important to me and what I talk to my team about all the time is the importance of DQ.

So what is DQ? DQ is the decency quotient. That is how you treat people with kindness. with fairness, with openness, with transparency. And I feel that all of us as leaders have had to lead so differently post the pandemic. We've all had to change the way that we lead our teams with so much more DQ, EQ. And that's why women are shining so much in this time post COVID.

Because not only are we extraordinary and remarkable multitaskers and multijugglers and level shifters. We're numerous halves. I don't know about you, Sarah, but I was a caregiver, an educator, and transitioning my global team through a crisis. So, look, I think we're all great multitaskers, but let's not forget about the leading with passion, kindness, heart, and faithfully other team.

Audience Question:

Thank you for an empowering session. I guess my question is, I'm sure along the way you get to convince a lot of men to be an ally or be a supporter or to be a mentor.

Ida Liu:

It's super important to have that allyship of the male colleagues as well, and also to make sure that they're aware of some of the unconscious biases and some of the challenges and perceptions that women face too. So just getting them involved is super, super important. And then I also think when you think about mentors, uh, and sponsors that you think about that aspect as well.

Actually, most of my sponsors and mentors actually have been men. Because there weren't that many women in the industry, right? So just think about, making sure that you incorporate that. And, you know, surprisingly, most men are super, super, super supportive. They have daughters, they have wives. They want to see the next generation of women do extremely

Sarah Chen-Spellings:

Well. I have two things I want to say about that. First is, what needs to change is, we cannot see women's issue as our problem alone. It needs to be a societal economic issue. That's number one.

So the fact that you get men involved, I'm hopeful in the future we'll also have men at these conferences. Of course, the conversation is different, but it's important that men recognize that this is an imperative, right? 70 to 80% of the consumer decision making power is being done by women. And until that understanding shifts, that mindset shifts, Nothing's going to change, right?

So frankly, even when I choose my speaking engagements, I do very little where it's all women's only. I choose a select few because for me, my realm of impact, what I think of my return on time is by convincing, I'm not here to sell to the sold, right? You're all sold already. We all need to do this. I'm here to have those difficult conversations. If not, I'll be doing something else with my life.

I'm here for the fire, really, right? Because I think that's what's needed. And so I encourage you as you enter your careers, yes, we're talking about women in leadership. Yes, the numbers suck, but don't let it hold you back. Don't let it define you. Be known for how good you are at your job.

You and I, all of us in this room, should be selected because we're damn good and we're the best person for the job. And this needs to continue to be demonstrated through your own role modeling, your own leadership. So what I would say, you know, in the first part is how to bring men along with this and how to encourage sponsors and mentors. If I think about my own sponsors and mentors, many of them are men as well. And the single easiest advice, if there's nothing else that you take away, is make it easy.

A no brainer for people to support you, to want to see you win. And I kid you not, that motivates me. Because I have so many people who want me to win, that if I don't win, it crushes my soul, right? I'm like, oh my god, I'm a disappointment. And, and that helps me, right? Because they see something in you, because you work at it.

You don't only talk a good game, you're doing the work. Right? At the end of the day, you know, um, all the soft skills, yes, very important. But do the work. Get in the rough and make it easy for others to say, I want her on my team because she's the best person for that job and be a good person, right? And what I mean by this is like, be nice, take the initiative, be generous.

Yes, we talk about networks and what it's given to us, but I always believe in also giving first, right? I don't think about, oh, I'm doing this favor so that you scratch my back, scratch your back. Yes, that's the world of business. But if you come into the world with the intention of, I'm doing this for the right heart.

That drives you forward and people want to be on your team and want you on your team.

Audience Question:

Where do you see yourselves in ten years, and what would you tell yourself ten years ago?

Ida Liu:

I would love to be running globally as a CEO in 10 years.

Sarah Chen-Spellings:

It's manifested. It's done.

Ida Liu:

And what I would say to myself maybe 10 years ago is, never stop believing in yourself.

Sarah Chen-Spellings:

David Epstein wrote the book Range. And that is really the story of my life, right? Like, the range that it has delivered in just a short amount of time is It's intense, insane, and incredible at the same time.

And I hope that for myself to continue to have range, right? I think to be inspired by others to deliver a level of excellence that the world needs because I believe in myself. My greatest, I guess, purpose has been to unlock that question of potential, right? I think all of you here today have great immense potential.

That's why you're sitting here. That's why you're in Wharton, you're in Ivy League, you're doing all these things, right? And the question that I will leave you with is, with all this talent, with all these opportunities that you have, which frankly is a privilege that not many have, what will you do with this one life?

And my hope in this 10 years, I'm hoping that frankly, Beyond The Billion gets to be that global investment firm, the firm of choice for female founders globally. We're ringing the bell on the NASDAQ on a frequent basis and creating returns and showing that this is more than a business case.

This is the reality, this is the norm, and we're the one to be championing the voice of women globally.

Ida Liu:

Just to add on to Sarah's comment, I would ask you all to contemplate what your purpose statement is. And that is a deeply reflective moment with that.

Amy Lau:

I think that concludes the time we have for today. Really thank you both for what you've done for the community.

Sarah Chen-Spellings:

Thank you.

Ida Liu:

Thank you.